Talk:A Genuine Guide To Making Gil
Current content deleted my first comment as this page has evolved into a very detailed and useful guide and my comments no longer hold their original validity. good work on the guide and please keep it up Skyfawn (talk) 09:12, October 23, 2014 (UTC) Thank you Skyfawn! I appreciate the kind words, I've worked rather hard one it. :) -IconicIdea (talk) 20:14, October 31, 2014 (UTC) coming along nicely sir. the only thing I might add is a general disclaimer that certain crafts are-to put it charitably-dead. finding 7 products in them worth your time will be difficult because there are only 1 or 2 that fit your bill and all the people who skilled those crafts in the day when they WERE still worthwhile are locked in on those. also, the need to reevaluate those worthy products on a regular basis, not just due to a crash but due to emerging new products, etc. Considering your section on Choco digging I assume you may be adding a section on HELM, which does still have a use (and can get you some of those sparky things, too). Generally liking the prose style so far. The one other thing I-personally, not a universal view-think you might want to emphasize a bit more is that $ is not a get rich quick, it's commitment, perseverance and above all PATIENCE. of course, I'm not really one to talk, I've been held back in most of my gaming progress due to not finding a steady source of income, especially since I stopped having to level beast/bard the old-fashioned way, when I always had drops to sell (and so neglected my crafting, too). Enjoying the guide so far though, keep it up and good luck sir, nice to see someone trying to help and with information that is current, too.--Deadmeataru (talk) 22:46, August 22, 2014 (UTC) Thank you Deadmeataru I'm glad you appreciate the guide. I added info on the Q&A in the 'Choosing Your Craft' field about specializing in a profitable craft. Regarding reevaluating products regularly, if they read and follow the guide that soon becomes apparent. You always need to be looking for new product, but I'll add that in too. I also added a section on HELM but I doubt it's in the exact vein you were thinking... lol. Thanks for the feedback, it's always appreciated! :) IconicIdea (talk) 01:18, August 24, 2014 (UTC) The 1rst draft is now complete. Any ideas, thoughts, criticisms, or smart alecky remarks are welcome. Please let me know how I can improve this document and any feedback you all may have. Thank You! :) IconicIdea (talk) 00:17, August 25, 2014 (UTC) ok, I like it. and I do agree with you about HELM, the effort is soulcrushing. but here's the caveat, everybody hates HELM, but they still need the materials for those crafts... that means that if everyone is avoiding it but you can tough it out there is an exploitable market there. I mean, I'm currently trying to take my GS to 70, but I'm stuck at 53 due to the dearth of reasonably priced mats. if 10 guys were actively mining gold and platinum ores, knocking the price down and the supply up I'd be buying for powercrafting sessions. and I doubt I'm the only one stuck at that level, historically supply has blocked a lot of gold/blacksmiths starting in the 50s and only getting worse as you move up. take bismuth ore, currently AH for 10k/ore and I sell any I get in mog garden but that's 1 every 3 days, and it usually sells within an hour. at 6-8/hour doing Mining that might be worth your time, especially with the market cornered. The same is true with Akaso and similar things still used in bst jugs (and Geo AF). and it's a bit more exciting than fishing as you have to run around hostile mobs for it. As to farming, what you left out is it can be combined with sparks burning (or other activities, like a job points party). if you are killing stuff for quests most of the mobs drop something that sells, and from a money standpoint killing 2 birds with 1 stone certainly doesn't hurt. I see a lot of people making money selling Skirmish pops they get powering through reives, or yggrette shards and the like. and as I've told people, selling 1 item that goes for 3m once a month is worth far less than selling 7 items at 30k/each that go in less than a day because you can usually sell 7 more tomorrow (like spiderwebs used to sell). so track stuff that is falling to you as drops as you may just make some cash on the side. Regardless, thanks for putting out something a bit more timely than what's currently out there. That's the same reason I wrote both my guides-although the party role guide needs expansion yet.--Deadmeataru (talk) 00:00, August 28, 2014 (UTC) Key Items & New Content I've removed the HELM section, as I found no one was really reading it and it repeated information everyone knows. I've added a section regarding Key Items and their profitability and in general polished the entire document. Some readers have indicated that I'm over simplifying the process, that I'm no including enough detail. Meaning there's a lot of leg work involved in getting Key Items, becoming a skilled crafter, selling at the Auction House that I'm glossing over. & I am. My feeling is that if I include all that information... this will be a very long and technical document, and even less people will read it. Does anyone want to weigh in on these findings? Bazaar information and detailed product research tools? "For Example: If a player floods the market with Bone Subligars and Wax Swords they will be heart-broken. They'll make little - to no money, feel like a failure, and likely never try an AH sale again. If this sounds familiar, don't worry. Patience and a bit of homework (30 minutes should be enough to start) will get you profits within a couple sales." This is the issue I think for most and unfortunately there isn't any great solution to the homework. the in-game tools simply do not allow anyone to see the selling patterns of items with enough detail to do this with any ease. FFXIAH.COM to the rescue. Now, the problem here is people look in the wrong place. If you just go for the homepage for the server you'll see this neat little window that is the answer to all your questions letting you know the 25 most viewed items-IGNORE IT! most of the stuff in that window is r/ex and doesn't sell on the AH at all. As a crafter or a farmer what you actually want to look at is the button on the left immediately below linkshell entitled "Browse", then you follow the link to the category you can most easily exploit, ex. for alchemists Medicines or Alchemy materials-remember, some materials are synthed like animas-and then open the category. On the page that shows up there are multiple columns, the one we are primarily interested in is "Rate". click the header and the table will be sorted by rate of sale, with the fastest sellers at the bottom. Start checking there. An item that sells for a million may not be worth your time if it sells once every 3 months. by the same token something that sells 50 units a day but for 50 gil each probably sucks as well. a bit of quick analysis should let you see your exploitable niche, although you may need to look in several categories until you find a good one or two. That is if selling through the AH... See, FFXI also allows you to check bazaar only items as well, and some of those are worth it. Also, some things are easier to do this way as well. Example, when Cait Sith was still a server there was a guy who parked a mule named Imrahilsquiver in Jeuno all the time, and the whole server knew he was THE place to go for ranger ammo. If you can DualBox a mule OR you play at off peak times so you can park a mule in Port Jeuno during peak times you can make a lot of money just sitting there. Reset your configuration so you never automatically log-out due to inactivity. Then load your bazaar full of stuff you craft that sells at all-consumables are generally best but Dynamis currency, WoE Coins and a fair number of gear drops that cannot be sold on the AH can be bazaared, wiki will generally tell you which-although new items are very slow getting into the database now with so few contributors. didn't mean to intrude but I thought some might like to know HOW to do the homework if they don't already.--Deadmeataru (talk) 23:55, October 22, 2014 (UTC) It's not an intrusion at all Deadmeataru - anything you add is always valuable. Yes, I know what you mean, just because it has the "the 25 most viewed items" doesn't mean any of the them sell... it just means people like to look at them. I've been thinking about adding more detailed instructions on searching/researching products (on ffxiah.com) for some time but I was afraid I'd already bogged people down with too much information. I'll get it out soon. As far as Bazzars go... I've never really done them but you raise some very good points. Let me experiment with it a bit and I'll add a section for that too. I've also never sold alternate currencies & I've heard it can be very profitable. Yes... I'm going to dive into this and post the results. It might be awhile though. -IconicIdea (talk) 20:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC) The alternate currencies DO sell, although with the same issues with undercutters and the like anything on the AH has. Dynamis currency-at least on my server-is less valuable than Alexandrites at the moment as more people are powering for Mythic weaps than Relic, but some relics are still very much worth having-I'm loving my Gjallerhorn and so is every party I run with as an example, and paladins still want their shields. Heavy Metal Plates and rift stuff sell for a ton and quite fast if you aren't pricing them insanely high but farming them can be a pain, @ 119 procs can be an issue with VW mobs; of course, SE announced on the forums another method of obtainment is likely coming, we'll see. I'd like getting my Daurdaubla to be viable. I also made a lot of money bazaaring Devious Dice and Limnial Residue on my mule, it's how I paid for the upgrade items for all my reforged AF/Relic armor. Another item that works well for those who prefer to farm are augmentation stones, the +2 sell pretty well on the AH, so if you don't need them for yourself, and of course the higher skirmish pop pieces are a decent seller. Another method for research-annoying as all hell to me but workable-is to go to the Bazaar area-Port Jeuno on Ragnarok-and watch the shouts for items people are looking for, not what they are selling. Personally, I hate the shout spam but in that 1 way it has a use.--Deadmeataru (talk) 15:35, November 1, 2014 (UTC) Opinions About Undercutting The guide is pretty well detailed, but, personally, i totally disagree about your topics about undercutting. I would go as far as to say i disagree so much that i believe in the exactly oposite. First thing of all: NEVER make decisions based in competitors mood. So what if they come saying bulls to you if you undercut? That just will make them ignorant people toward market, and if you are affected by their opinions, you are just playing their game, giving up your own plans to make other one persons plans to work. Second thing is: dont be foolish. NONE can control market. Market is just ruled by the simply offer and demand law. And offer and demand are ruled by people logical reasoning. Being emotional just will make you bankrupt. FFXIAH is very useful tool. While it has flaws, its the very best tool to analyze market. There you can see the current item state, and need to make reasonable choices to profit. First thing to analyze is how many items are being sold per day, and compare with the amount of item in stock. Thats the best gauge you can have to check how is the offer and demand intersection. An item that has less stock than items sold per day means there are more demand than offer, so really, it makes no sense undercutting. Undercutting will just hurt yourself: your item will sell fast, but the second one will be sold fast as well, so actually you gave up a profit margin for no reason. For stock similar to items sold per day, we are at a point that even a small introduction means someone will be left out of market, so its advised to undercut a small bit (like 1k, 10k) just for your item receive "priority" to sell at average price. Bigger undercutting will just hurt your profit. Now, the last scenario is when stock is higher than items sold per day. In that case, you MUST undercut. Dont be a fool, thinking keeping average price will artificially protect your profit and well fare of seller. Its a lie. As i said, offer and demand is the only factor that decides the price, not sellers, so, if stock is higher than items sold, it means that price WILL at some point drop to adjust offer and demand. Keeping current price just will HEAVILY hurt you. For example, supose you have an ifrit ring+1 and average price is 20m but there are 10 in stock, but just sold 2 per day. That mean, if you try selling for 20m, as well everyone else does that, you wont sell your item, because it would takes 5 days to sell all rings and your AH just keep your item for 3 days. But you still pay 1% tax, so answer me, whats better? Undercut 1% or wait the item to be sent to box and try to sell it again for average? Now supose all sellers decides to undercut for some unknown amount, what would you do to protect your good, as you know, the more time it takes to sell an item, more will come to restock, and in some cases, even increase the stock. Another point to consider is, your price is affected by cost and also, your production. If youre rational, you wont ever sell an item bellow cost (unless its a skill up item, where you need at least minimize the cost of leveling). If the item price drop bellow your cost, you will be forcelly removed from market. Thats why market will always favor the most productive seller. They can reduce their profits to eliminate casual competitors, and you must know that to see how good youre in that market. For example, wailing stones. There are 2 kind of sellers. The casul, that ran a pug and get stones while trying ki or just to play with friends, and there are people farming them, producting large amounts per day. If you have a steady production, and are reasonable, it makes no sense stocking, that will just hurt you. If you can produces 20 stones daily, you need to sell the 20 before farming more, otherwise, you gonna stock and see your risk increasing. And unless you have other activity as profitable as stones, controlling your offer will also represent a loss for you. OK... Since you weren't brave enough to sign your name at the end of your rant - and you didn't really read the guide let me explain a few things bluntly: Nameless Person: "First thing to analyze is how many items are being sold per day, and compare with the amount of item in stock. Thats the best gauge you can have to check how is the offer and demand intersection. An item that has less stock than items sold per day means there are more demand than offer, so really, it makes no sense undercutting. Undercutting will just hurt yourself: your item will sell fast, but the second one will be sold fast as well, so actually you gave up a profit margin for no reason." My Response: This guide advises selling 21 items at very limited numbers across the market. That way you can undercut quickly, minimally, make a killing, and move on to the next product. Undercutting is a practice used in REAL LIFE, and if you can't understand that then stick to video games, you're never going to make money here, or in the real world. Nameless Person: "Second thing is: dont be foolish. NONE can control market. Market is just ruled by the simply offer and demand law. And offer and demand are ruled by people logical reasoning. Being emotional just will make you bankrupt." My Response: Preachy... I never said anyone could control the market, I said it was a gamble, but a gamble I'm always coming out on top of. The game of making money is a game to be played, you don't like these methods? Why should that hurt my feelings? YOU DIDN'T READ THE FREAKING GUIDE. WHY ARE YOU EVEN TALKING HERE?? -IconicIdea (talk) 18:47, November 2, 2014 (UTC) he also left out one other factor, if you are undercutting right you are leaving no profit on the table. I undercut all the time... by 9 gil. NOONE is bidding in 1 gil increments, generally not even in 50 gil increments, I get full price and generally still sell 1st.--Deadmeataru (talk) 00:06, November 4, 2014 (UTC) Exactly Deadmeataru. This guy sounds smart on the surface, but it's all an excuse to get trapped in a single-minded way of making money that is... honestly... just as unpredictable as any other stock market tactic. However, he touts it as the "Only Logical Honest" thing to do. Everyone Clue In. There is no ONE way. My way is NOT the right way or the only way, it's simply a path I'm following right now. As my tactics evolve, so will this page to offer sellers other options. Undercutting itself is treated as (hisssss) "evil" by so many sellers on FFXI. When it's not - it's like anything else. It's either lazy (THAT'S what pisses people off) - or it's done smart (& makes you grips of coin). -IconicIdea (talk) 14:59, November 4, 2014 (UTC) I respect you for making a guide, but i really feel sad you got so emo about opinions. A talk page is used to talk, you wrote your opinion, i wrote mine, hidden in talk page, so that wont conflict with your guide, but you got angry with that for no reason. Lemme tell you, by making personal comments against me, you just throw in trash can your capacity of discussing, so, while you ask in caps lock "why am i here" because you supose i didnt read your guide, i will go as far to say: what are you doing in a talk page if you seems incapable to talk, but to offend anyone with opinion diferent than yours? Talking about me wont make you any better, neither your ideas. And if my signature is the sign of my courage, here we go: Pantafernando, odin server. OK. Again. You don't really read do you? I wasn't upset about your opinion so much as you didn't bother to read anything in the guide, & you misunderstood - well... everything, because you couldn't be bothered to educate yourself on the material. & Again - if you're going to comment on anything? User four tilde symbols "~" it leaves your name, date, and time. I don't care that your opinion is different... What's upsetting is your assumption that you understood the topic and decided to lend advice that's entirely off topic. Do us all a favor. READ before commenting. Thanks Home-Slice. -IconicIdea (talk) 13:49, November 17, 2014 (UTC)